Tuesday, November 27, 2012

Aztec "national revelation" - in the past I replied as follows:

Here is a paragraph from a much longer version of my argument that I have not yet published:


There is another type of story that would not leave evidence for the audience to whom the story is told. This is a story placed so far in the past that no information survives from that time. In this case the story may involve public events. Even if the story describes an event that was supposedly experienced by the whole world, the audience cannot reason that its memory would have been preserved, since nothing at all was preserved from that time. So, for example, stories about a remote time when all people understood the language of the animals and conversed with them will not contradict KP.


The Aztec story is not dated in our calendar system, so it fits what I wrote. Also, I checked the original. The migration is in fact true. 




Now I have received the following sources from David Greenberg that invalidate the entire question:


I found something on the Aztecs:

It seems the aztec legend is NOT that the god spoke to everyone in a national revelation, but rather that the war god communicated to the priests, who then relayed the message on. Not quite a national revelation. Here are 3 sources:

1- http://goo.gl/rO9rG

See pg. 31-32: "Huitzilopochtli, later identified as a god of war, communicated directly with his high priests via dreams and profound trances, bestowing on them omens, prophecies and navigational tools to arrive at their promised land."

2- "These priests voiced Huitzilopochtli’s oracular directions as to where the combined Mexica-Aztec tribe was next to travel."

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:nwdGQ7tLFugJ:www.aztlan.net/quest_for_aztlan.htm+Huitzilopochtli+%2B+priests+%2B+migration&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

3- "Huitziton, a person of great authority...heard in the branches of a tree the trilling of a small bird...struck at this, and communicating his impressions to another personage...they both induced the Aztecs to leave their country, interpreting the song as a mandate from divinity."

See pg. 140

http://books.google.ca/books?id=4OgUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA140&lpg=PA140&dq=Huitzilopochtli+%2B+Tecpaltzin&source=bl&ots=WNyYc04Vfk&sig=HTassLRSOfBBUik9cGvBpejhVak&hl=en&ei=8IuAS_b-O8qutgfEoqyaBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CAoQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=&f=false

So it looks that the aztec belief was that their war god did not communicate to the people, but rather to the high priests, who then relayed the claimed divine message on to the masses. But according to these sources, the Aztecs did not have a legend that it was the god Huitzilopochtli who spoke directly to everybody. So we can see this is definitely not a national revelation from god, but rather a relayed message from priests. This, unlike a national revelatory claim, is exactly what we’d expect to see in legends.